In Chapter Four, Prof. Salaita asks the question "is zionism racism?" To answer that question he analyzes the views of prominent zionists--some of whom are Jewish and some who aren't. During his discussion, he considers the location of the state of Israel--and I'm curous to hear from you: Does Israel have a right to exist? If so, under what conditions? If not, what happens to modern-day Israel?
As always, I look forward to your responses. When responding, please reply to a previous student's post and please provide evidence for your point of view!
Wednesday, October 21, 2009
Much ado about Israel
Posted by Mr. P at 3:52 PM
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59 comments:
Israel does not have the right to exist because it causes many different problems due to the Zionists’ beliefs. Even though the Zionist have the belief of returning to their homeland doesn't mean that the Zionist could just change and alter things around. Zionism may have been proven as not being racism, because e generally racism deals with ethnicity, but it still has an affect on the Arabs. Ana Chreyh, from the novel "Anti-Arab Racism in the U.S.A summarized that Zionism is crucial to Arabs on page 140. Zionism has spent years trying to get rid of the Palestinian. To others Zionism can be defined differently but to me it basically means that the Zionists are trying to take over Israel, and by Israel still existing it can cause conflict. The Modern day Israel might be destroyed because of the Arabs. The Arabs want Israel to be destroyed. Israel prevents Palestinians from establishing their homeland. If Israel is destroyed it will benefit the Arabs and Palestinians. To me it is better that it benefits the Arabs and Palestinian than the Zionist because just because the Zionist have a belief of something that they want fulfilled doesn’t means that they can force or disposes the Arabs and Palestinians.
I believe that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist. Why? Because when the Jews moved in, they displaced many native Palestinians for no apparent reason to me. The Holocaust was done in Europe, so there was no need to run. Instead, they could’ve formed a nice Jewish community in Europe since they were already there instead of invading Palestine and forcing their presence upon the Arab natives there. Like Mr. Salaita said in regards to Mr. Fish’s article about reverse racism, “To Fish, Palestinians apparently don’t exist since he scarcely mentions them in glorifying the European conquest of their land, which according to his ludicrous moral index is perfectly acceptable since the conquerors suffered genocide elsewhere.”
Basically, since the Jews suffered the Holocaust in Europe, why is it justifiable for them to conquer Palestine? It wasn’t the Palestinians that threw the Jews in gas chambers, rounded them up in concentration camps, and treated them worse than animals. If anything, the Jews should’ve conquered a nice piece of land in Europe, settled there, and deemed that place their official homeland.
Now the question is: What to do with modern-day Israel with all the Jews gone? We should just give the land back to the Palestinians since they were there before the Jews came and took it from them. I’m sure the Palestinians would like no longer being refugees in their own land. America would also be happy since they would no longer have to back Israel in this war for land and power!
Because Israel is like a man made state, I believe that they should not have the land. The way Israel received the land was not fair. Because Brittan decided to push the Palestinians out of there land. I think biblically, the land was promised to the Israelites. I just do not think it fair to push a group of people out of there home country.
Zionism supports the re-establishment of the Jewish people. I do not think this is being racisms. It is just something some people believe, it’s like their philosophy.
Modern day Israel will perish. This is because if they are pushed out of their land, I do not think they will go peacefully. I think that everything will be turned upside down because they have had control over the land for so long.
Maybe whoever owned or lived in the land first should have it. It is only fair.
Israel has about has much right to exist as the Americans had to Westward expansion. In a sense yes, Israel does have a right to exist or rather a Zionist homeland has a right to exist, however in this case it’s a bit different. Exiling the denizens of a country in the name of a religion is exactly how the Americans did with its Westward Expansion. Religion is not a proper justification for stealing someone else’s land right out from under them. It’s always been used as a smoke-screen for more dubious acts, such as crusades and I wouldn’t be surprise if there were some ulterior motives for Zionism. “Zionism is all things to all people. To some it is the noblest of causes. To others is a curse” Dereck Brown of the Guardian notes. To those benefiting, and to those who it doesn’t affect directing it would seem like something noble. In theory returning to a holy land seems like nothing, but a noble act, however in execution claiming someone else’s land doesn’t seem very noble or holy for that matter.
I don't think Israel should exist because Zionist have many problems going on already. He already trying to take over the Palestinian and if he can get rid of them he then would be able to take over Israel. But, think about it though Israel still have the Arabs, even though he wasn't proven to be racism in the article Zionist still have a bif affect on the Arabs because if he get rid of the Palestinian he still have to worry about the Arabs and where they going to go. Also if Zionist still make an effort to take over Israel it's still going to be a problem since Israel still exist. In my opinion I feel that Zionist shouldn't be able to take over Zionist therefore, it shouldn't exist because it taking away the benefits of Arabs and Palestinian. Zionist shouldn't be able to have all of wishes granted it just isn't right.
Isreal should not exist today because, the land was given to the Jews as a reparation. Since the land was given to the Jews as a reparation, then the Germans should've gave the Jews some land in Germany. Salaita makes a valid statement when he says, "No concentration camps existed in the Arab World",(135). Basically meaning that, since the Arab culture had nothing to do with the extermination of the Jews, why should the Palestians have to sacrifice some of their homeland to a group of people they did nothing to. For instance, whites had enslaved the Africans and still to this day African Americans have not recieved any type of reparations whatsoever from white Americans. But on the flip side if Palestine took part in the extermination of the Jews, the Isreal would have the right to exist.
The conditions that the Jews should live under is that, they should have to live by the laws of Palestine. I feel this way because, it's like saying, someone moves into your home and they decide to do what the hell they want to do whatever time they feel like it. It's not right, and since the Jewish people essentially live in Palestine, then they should listen and live by what the Palestians say, because they own that home.
Zionism can be viewed as racism and many can disagree. In my opinion I think it is because Jews tried to take territory to create their own nation. They wanted to create a state in Palestine for themselves, “to be controlled by and for Jews”, as said in http://www.serendipity.li/zionism.htm. They exclude people from other religions and people from the Palestine territory, making themselves sound very important and better than others that they must have a state for themselves only. Zionists did not take in hand other people who lived in the area they wanted to invade.
I think Israel has been constructed already and should still exist. Just because there are a lot of conflicts between religions, it should be destroyed. There will come a point in where these problems will be fixed and arranged well. I understand it is a holy land, and sometimes we would like our religion to be respected. Zionists do come back to Israel, but that it their belief, not ours. And because we don’t believe in their religion and we don’t believe they should return back does not mean we should destroy their land.
I don’t think that Israel should exist, but it does now so there’s not much to do. The reason why I don’t think it should exist is because they didn’t get it fairly. The land was just handed to them after World War II, and the Palestinians where being shifted elsewhere around the country. The Palestinians have and will still be there. If Israel didn’t exist modern day Israel would be modern day Palestine, and there wouldn’t be any problems on the Gava Srip like there are now. The Gava Strip is located on the West bank of Palestine. There wouldn’t be a war either, or any attacks between the two places like there are now.
I believe that Zionism is not racist. Just because they support a sprecific type of group does not mean that
they are racist. As they state in page 139, you do not have to be Jewish, live in Israel, or be in favor of a
Jewish state, and still can consider themselves Zionists. Another reason why I believe that Zionism is not racist
is because it was not created by Holocaust survivors. As for Israel, I believe that it does not have the right
to exist mainly because of all the problems Israel has caused since day one of coming to existance. Israel was
attacked the first day and if it would have never existed all of these problems would have never started.
Israel is somewhat connected to the problems with they have with the Middle East. Although they are in existance
now, there is not much that we can do about it at the time. Therefor Modern Day Israel should continue with
they way that it is now because changing them years after they came into existance will be hard to do.Not the same
people live there now, that lived there before, not making it fair to destroy the land of those who claim that is
their land and their home.If it is done then it will solve many things and there will be many less problems.
I don't think Israel should have become a state just because over 6 million jews were killed during the holocaust. Maybe the should have gotten the land fairly instead of as a pity gift. I do believe Israel has a lot of holy significance which is why the land is being fought over it. The way the jews got the land was similar to how early american settlers got modern day America; by taking over "natives" land. Some say Israel is rightfully promised to the Jews which is why the land should be theirs.I believe there could have been a better approach to getting the land.
To me I think that Israel has every right to exist. I think that all people should be able to have a place that they could call their homeland. The jewish people have always been kicked out of every place they have resited. They should be able to have a place where they can be sure that they won't be persecuted because of their religious belief. If we check the bible this is the place of their promised land and i think that they should be able to have it. They could gain their citizenship if they wanted and people already living there like palestenians could also gain citizenship they dont necessarily have to be Jewish to be a citizen of Israel.As long as nobody is being kicked out of the country becuase they are Jewish or not i think that Israel has every right ti excist just like any other of the countries in the world.
In chapter 4, there are many views of Zionism being racist and not racist. For one part I think Zionism is not racism because it's defined on pg.138, as a movement to support a homeland for the Jewish people. They aren't excluding no one as Cathy mentioned on her blog post. Anyone can join and they don't have to live on Israel. I also think Zionism it's racist because they fought over a land that was already occupied bye people and the Jews tried to make it theirs. I do agree with everyone that says Israel doesn't have the right to exist. Palestinian's were forced to get out of the land and then taken by the Jews to make it their own way. The Jews think Israel was the home land for their religion that's why they are fighting for it. Yet, it doesn't belong to them and it's causing conflicts amongst the people living there. There are fight in Israel because people are against Zionism from being there and is creating major tension in Israel. That is why I think Israel shouldn't have the right to exist. That way, no one fight for that piece of land.
I dont believe that Zionism is racist because they are not against another race. It is just a movement that supports Jews. On page 139 it even says you dont have to live in Israel, be in favor of a Jewish state or be Jewish to be a Zionist. I dont think Israel has the right to exist just like many other countries that were taken over by another nation. The Jews went in and kicked out the natives and it has caused a lot of problems. I believe getting rid of Israel would solve problems and tension in the Middle East. Even so, Israel has been a country for quite some time and I dont think there is anything that should or can be done.
i DO NOT FEEl iSRAEl SHOUlD HAVE THE lAND, OR RIGHT TO EXIST BECAUSE OF ITS INHERITANCE OF IT. iSREAL POWER, OR DOMINANCE WAS NOT RIGHTGUL, BUT THEY TOOK IT OVER, BECAUSE THEY FELT IT WAS THERES TO HAVE. THERE ARE MANY CONTRIBUTING FACTORS IN THIS PUZZLE, THE MAIN ONE BEING RELIGION. THE DISPUTE OF WHO THE CHOSEN PEOPLE ARE OR WHO THE PROMISED LAND GOES TO HAS BEEN TRANFORMED INTO SOMETHING POLITICAL AND FAR FROM RELIGION.
ZIONIST IS NOT RACIST TO ME BECAUSE BUT ZIONIST STILL DO EFFECT THE FLOW OF FORMALOTY AND HOMELAND WHEN IT COMES TO THE JEW AND PALASTINES
Israel does not have the write to exist because the Palestinians were forced out of thier land by the British. This land was holy and scared ground that was taken away all because of sympathy. Modern day Israel will be greatly affected, so I feel it is too late to take place. In the reading, on page 145, it spoke on how Palenstinians who resided in Israel were experiencing apartheid. If this is taking place, a massive change such as giving the land back will not be peaceful, and it will not happen effectively.
Not to go against the Jews/Zionists, but I believe that the state of Israel does not have the right to exist. I agree with both Maya and Count Olaf that it is true to the fact, which the Zionists believe that they must come back to their homeland, but that does not mean that they must take the land of someone else. Although Britain made the decision to take the land from the Palestinians and give it to the Zionists, the Zionists are still at fault. They should be the ones to make sure that the land is free and empty before they take the land.
Stanley Fish stated the Zionism is not racism. I agree with Salaita that Zionism is racism. I believe this because wouldn’t you think that if the Zionists saw that the land that they were invading, was already taken by the Palestinians, they would refuse to take the land? Well, this did not occur. They took the land with open arms. They should consider the fact that the Palestinians are still people with homes, families, and feelings. However, Stanley fish, states that Palestine apparently does not exist, so I guess it does not matter how the Palestinians feel.
Modern day Israel should once again become Palestine and should be given back to its original holder. I am not just saying that because I am a Palestinian, I am saying it because it is the right thing to do. However, we should find an accurate homeland for Israel to exist because after all it is still a state with homes, families, and feelings. I know it is not exactly realistic, but there should be peace for all.
(**I hope that by writing this, I have not defended anyone and I am truly sorry if I have).
Thank You!
To say Israel should not exist is to say that America should not exist or other African countries and even the other middle eastern countries. There is conflict everywhere and the way the land was obtained was not as bad as the way America was obtained. A man came and founded a land that was already inhabited and then stole it from them. Does that mean the America should not exist?
They have all the right to exist and should continue to live as they are. Israel has every right to exist and Jews have their own historical reasoning as to why they should be in Israel and who are we to say that they should or shouldn't. The Zionist need to access why they no longer control that land and how to live peacefully in Israel with the Jews. You can not destroy a place because there is conflict one must come up with proper solutions to the problem.
In my opinion I think that Israel should have the right to exist because its already a place that was formed by the people, and they got their own government, land, etc. Its not their fault that the Palestinians had to give up their land to give Israelis a place to live. If anyone is to blame, it should be the greedy US, Russia, etc who split up the land for oil convenience and not for the people. In the book, a reference is made to how Israel should have been made in Germany, and well this is not a good idea. Its better for Israel to be where they are at because in Germany, it would be a small little country by a huge country like Germany. All the Jews might want to get revenge for the Holocaust, etc. Additionally, I believe we are no one to judge them because our country was also founded in similar ways. The British etc. came to this land and took all of it away from the Native Americans, rebeled, got independance, and created their own government. It was virtually impossible for the United States to be destroyed because whenever there was a disagreement, the US would stand together united as one to fight for their land. In this time, the Native Americans had lost the war and lost their land, they learned to live with it and continue on their lives. Furthermore, if the Israelis were kicked out, then wouldn't that mean that everyone who took another person's land, had to give it back to the owner? This would never happen, therefore, why bother. Just let Israel be, and let Palestine let go of their grudges, suck it up, and move in with life.
Like many others have stated, I also do not believe that Israel should have the land. Its only fair. I feel like when things happen unnaturally, they result in something disastrous. Therefore, the way that the Israelis got the land was unfair and because it was unnatural I think that if not now, then soon something will happen to them or the land or both which result in them wishing they had received the land in a better way or at least fought for it. And as far as Zionism, I don’t think it’s “racism.” Ever since the beginning of this school year, I’ve had a different outlook on racism and in my opinion, this isn’t it. This is simply a perspective or lifestyle. I think racism is a bit extreme.
I blieve that israel has every right to exist just as every other country. If you think not, please justify how the Europeans took America from the indians, how America took texas from mexico,etc. Can someone please explain the difference between the situations?, besides their actions; which are really not important, because in the end they all had the same results. Despite how wrongly they went about it, they fought for their land, threrfore they deserve to exist.
I blieve that israel has every right to exist just as every other country. If you think not, please justify how the Europeans took America from the indians, how America took texas from mexico,etc. Can someone please explain the difference between the situations?, besides their actions; which are really not important, because in the end they all had the same results. Despite how wrongly they went about it, they fought for their land, threrfore they deserve to exist.
I do not believe that Israel has the right to exist because of the way that their land was obtained. They pushed a group out and took away their rights. I know they wanted a homeland for Jews, the same way other countries have a homeland, but in order to obtain this homeland, racist and unjust things were done to the residents of the territory. I do not believe Zionism is racist, but the actions it leads people to go through with can be seen as racist. The lengths people will go to in order to show their belief in Zionism, lead people to believe that it is racist. The removal of the Palestine was not as brutal as other events, but that still doesn’t make it justified. Salaita mentions how some believe that Isael is justified in committing some unjust acts because unjust acts were committed against them. I believe the opposite of these people because as Salaita states, the acts committed on one group were done by another, and the group goes and commits an act on another group that has done nothing to them (some minor disagreements and abuse may exist, but are not equivalent to the acts they are subjected to). These ideas and actions lead me to believe that Israel shouldn't exist and it's people should be moved like they moved the Palestine.
I think Israel should exist because of the problems due to people different beliefs. I agree with Count Olaf that the Jewish people should have just stay in Europe and made a Jewish community there. Also because the Land of Israel was taken from the Palestinians because the British felt bad for the jewish people. I don't think zionism isn't racism but have problems that kind of deal with racism.
Israel has a right to exist as long as it does not compromise the well being of citizens already living in Palestine. The problem is that the Zionist are not about the people that already live there. They are only thinking about the "Holy Land". If they severed Israel and only made one small piece of palestine Israel(or monument), then I believe the Palestians might be better with that decision. If Zionist cannnot adhere or even try to listen to what Palestinians have to say then they do not Israel. Rana Chreyh speaks of how this movement is just another European act of power. Showing if they want something they will get it but it's not racism. racism has to do with race or ethnicity not religion, so it's religionism.
Queen Q I think he is the zionist people, so I think I agree that Isreal is not beneficial to Arabs or Palastinians. But the coflict is that Israel is in Palestine that's why its effecting Palestinians so much. but it is true that no one group of people should be able to have all their wishes granted, especially in the compromise of a whole nation of people.
I think that Israel has the right to exist. Many times different land was taken and overuled. Why all of a sudden should it become not right it should've been not right the whole time. I agree with Lady j that zionism is not racism but like Salaita said that zionism probably has racism in it. But, zionism itself is not racism.
I feel that Israel DOES have the right to exist because its Biblical Historical existence. In those days, this "Holy Land" was occuppied by God's "Holy/Chosen People", the Israelites. Throughout time Israel has been known to live on this land and that they have historical a background that has been recognized throughtout the years. Zionism's beliefs are wrong in a sense that there is no reason for them to push one nation out of a land completely. This can be considered racism, in fact, I believe that it is racism. In my opinion, Zionist is trying to take over the land in order to control Israel. Instead of completely removing Israel from the Land I feel that it is important and respectful to show some type of respect in honoring them with a certain type of memorial statue, document, or tourist attraction.
I think that Israel should be allowed to exist. The Jewish people had no choice but to move from Europe and relocate somewhere that safety is available. The fact that they moved to a place that was already occupied was unfortunate, but something’s are just meant to be. I disagree with what Count Olaf said because during the Holocaust there were some Jewish people living in Europe. If the Jewish people stayed in Europe and started their own community, there would have been a greater number of casualties from the affects of the Holocaust. The fact that British pushed and forced the Jewish people back to Palestine was both wrong in the case that they knew of the residents, and also helpful because in some way the British actually helped the Jewish people from more suffering. The jewish community needs to thank the Arabs for allowing them to live on the land even though that there was no reason for them to do so. There also needs to be some sort of unification that symbolizes that they are trying to become more of a state and allies rather then be enemies and resent each other for what they could not stop. IN my opinion i think that Zionism is not racist just because it focused on the security and safety of the Jewish community.
In my opinion Israel shouldn't have the right to exist. Israel only received the land because Britain pushed the Palestinians out of their land. With out the help of Britain, would Israel exist today?
Zionist is the re-development of the Jewish people. Jewish people are there now, but what about the re- development of the Palestine people? Since both the Jews and the Palestinians feel they belong on the land, conflict will arise. Both groups in a way have the right to feel likes it’s their land but only one group should have total control. Since Israel was created by default I feel it’s only right that who ever occupied the land first, should be the one to control it now. Palestinians should be in control of their land. They were there first, so it should belong to them.
I do not belive Israel has the right to exist becase of the way they have treated the Palestinians. Those who are zionsit are in the process of taking over Israel, which will case more annomosity to the Palestinias, since zionist are trying to get rid of them anyway. In "Anti-Arab Racism in the U.S.A" summerizes its views on Zionism. Another reason why Israel should not exist is because the Palestinians were their first, this was their homeland. Those Jews that came over into the homeland of the Palistinians were from the Holocaust. They were looking for new land to occupy, they did but it was the homeland of the Palestinians. So these ppeople have no right to take over someone elses land just like it as dmone to them.
Well first off I think Israel should have the right to exist. As Mya says the land, biblically, was promised for the Israelites. But, the Israelites were brought out of bondage. Maybe this ironic! The Jewish people were held in one country, but then got kicked out. Maybe the Jewish people getting kick out was a way to open their eyes to saying we need our own land, our own home, where people can’t kick us out whenever they please. I feel Israel should exist because there is not one solid definition of Zionism in Chapter 4. Salaita was giving all these definitions from all these different people, but when you look at it, most of those definitions are the same in a way. Zionism is the movement of the Jews to their home place. Well if Israel is a home to the Jewish people and they went through a movement to go back to their home place, why can’t they have their home in Israel?! As Mya says, “Zionism supports the re-establishment of the Jewish people”. Well if Zionism is the “re-establishment” of the Jewish people, why couldn’t the Jewish people “re-establish” their homes or lives in the new state for the Jewish, Israel? If Israel wasn’t populated with mainly Jewish residents, the land would probably be controlled by the British (because they pushed the Palestinians out) and the Jewish would probably still be getting pushed around by different Middle-Easters because the Jewish population probably wouldn’t be stable enough.
Israel does not have the right to exit only because when the Jews arrived they misplaced many Palastanians like Count Olaf stated. I also feel like Israel did not do anything to harm anyone, however I feel that the circumstances that occur within Israel do not have the right to exit. the question is if that is the case like Kyesha said "the europenas took America from the Indians", and misplaced them, so does America not have the right to exit? Salaita mentions "Zionism has spent the past century dispossesing the Palestanian people. It has ignored their just claims, and subjected them to persecution,torture and death",(141). According to Dictionary.com "zionism is a worlwide Jewish movement that resulted in the establishment and development of Israel. Dictionary.com also states that "racism is a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others". Therefore I believe that Zionism is not racism. Like Bea previously said,"zionism supports the re establishment". If Zionism had anything to do with being racism, why would they have concern for relocation. Clearly Zionsim is not racism, they just have different viewpoints.
I think that Israel does have a right to exist the way Americans do. I mean we did invade a foreign land and drove out the "native americans". We were able to create a country for us the way the Jews did in palestine. Just like them we used religion as a mean to reason with them. If I were to disagree I'd be a hypocrite.
In "Anti-Arab Racism in the USA” Salaita makes the argument that Zionism has many different definitions. In the English dictionary Zionism means a worldwide Jewish movement that resulted in the establishment and development of the state of Israel. Where as Mann’s definition of Zionism is the movement to support a homeland for Jewish people. I feel that Israel has the right to exist because just like many religious faiths, people of the Jewish faith want a piece of land to call their own. Mann says “…but a person does need not to live in Israel to be a Zionist or be in favor of a Jewish state” (Salita, 139). Here Mann is saying hat you don’t have to be in favor of either belief to live in Israel. And I agree with this statement that if there is the understanding between the two faiths, then I don’t see why Israel shouldn’t exist.
I think that the Jewish people living in israel should leave, they do not belong there. The land was givent ot them without the Palestine people's consent.And the people of both countries have been fighting over Israel for years. I think the Jewish people, being the strong people that they are, should be humble and give the land back, as it was not theirs to take in the first place.
I personally thibk that Isreal shouldnt be owned, because it causes too much controversy and issues. The Zionist want to prove that they are still superior, although they arent outrightly racist. they have beliefs just like vthe next person, but like the author says, there are traces of racism in zionism. Palestinalans and Zionist clearly need to stay far awiay from each other, but more so a resolution need to be made, because in my opinion Zionist are racist. Arabs and Palestinains may want Isreal, and so do the Zionists. However, one believe isnt better than the other, and Ireal should be lieft the way it is to lessen cataclym.
I personally thibk that Isreal shouldnt be owned, because it causes too much controversy and issues. The Zionist want to prove that they are still superior, although they arent outrightly racist. they have beliefs just like vthe next person, but like the author says, there are traces of racism in zionism. Palestinalans and Zionist clearly need to stay far awiay from each other, but more so a resolution need to be made, because in my opinion Zionist are racist. Arabs and Palestinains may want Isreal, and so do the Zionists. However, one believe isnt better than the other, and Ireal should be lieft the way it is to lessen cataclym.
I am personally on the fence, trying to decide whether or not Israel has the right to exist. On one hand the Brits promised the Palestinians the land and they also promised the Israeli people the land. Britain messed this entire thing up because they should have only agreed to give the land to one group of Arab/Muslim people. If the Palestinian people were given the land then wouldn't you think that the Israeli people would act the same way, because they we taken advantage of. Truthfully Israel should be destroyed because of all of the problems, but if it is then something must replace what has fallen.
Israel does not have the right to exist because of all the problems it causes with Zionists. The Palestinians and Arabs want Israel but neither one wants to admit who is more supperior. So to reslove that, Israel should just be eliminated.
TaVashane' Brown
I believe that Israel shouldnt exist because its existence now is too controvesial to what the Zionist beleive in. To the Zionist Israel is more than having land to themselves but its their "biblical homeland". However I believe that its quite selfish of the Zionist to want to get rid of the Palestinians. According to Salatia Zionist have not been proven to be racist but has a alot of racist qualities which cause alot of the tension between these two groups.(However I wouldnt call it explicit racism) If Isareal dont exist at all it would make it fair to both groups because at this point it seems as an agrerement wont be taken into place.In the end it all comes back to whos the most superior. If both are out who should the land belong to? I guess thats the hard part to figure out who would take control of this land but personally I dont believe neither should have total control.
TaVashane' Brown
I believe that Israel shouldnt exist because its existence now is too controvesial to what the Zionist beleive in. To the Zionist Israel is more than having land to themselves but its their "biblical homeland". However I believe that its quite selfish of the Zionist to want to get rid of the Palestinians. According to Salatia Zionist have not been proven to be racist but has a alot of racist qualities which cause alot of the tension between these two groups.(However I wouldnt call it explicit racism) If Isareal dont exist at all it would make it fair to both groups because at this point it seems as an agrerement wont be taken into place.In the end it all comes back to whos the most superior. If both are out who should the land belong to? I guess thats the hard part to figure out who would take control of this land but personally I dont believe neither should have total control.
Ulike some people I believe the Jews have the right to the land they are on now. Israel is built on the Jews holy land so why Is it not fair for them to be there. They went through years of unfair treatment. They were kicked out of their holy land and forced to locate other places. And because it is apart of their religion I feel that they have the right to the land. But on the other hand as far as zionism I do kind of belive it's unfair that the Palestinians have to be almost kicked out because the Jews don't want them there. It is a new day so maybe they can come to an argreement to build a new and better area for the Palestinians that way everyone is happy.
I'm curous to hear from you: Does Israel have a right to exist? If so, under what conditions? If not, what happens to modern-day Israel?
I think Israel showed be allowed to exist as land, and also as a sacred land to many religions. Israel can't denied its statehood. I also believe there shouldn't be any permanent residents of Israel. Israel should be a place to people can visit because they are entitled to it by thier religion. When assigning people to a particular creates conflicts anywhere. Israel has centuries of conflict because it is a sacred land to many religions. People should be allowed to live, and if people have land in Israel from earlier times thye will be asked to move. Israel could be broken up into places where those people could live, but no one should take up residency in Israel. The whole city of Jerusalem should be apart of Israel. Israel is only be used for visiting the sacred land.
This movement will probably cause many conflicts in modern day Israel. The relocating of thousands of people will be messy, but it is necessary for stopping these conflicts.
I don't believe that Israel has the right to exist. I don't feel that allowing Israel to exist would be far to those that already live in Palestine. If another religion felt that they should be allowed to returned to their native land than would you allow other nations to do the same? If this happen then people would be segregated by religion only.
I believe that Israel should not have the right to exist. While reading the student blogs I did change my point of view, specially when I read Bea's response where it says that Israel is a man made state, and that Britain did wrong by pushing the Palestines out of their territory. I had not see the creation of Israel in that perspective. I realized that it is wrong to damge the state of a group of people for the benefit of another group. In page 135 it says, "Jews, on the other hand, suffered the Holocaust in Europe, but made their claim to reparations in Palestine." I think that Zionism does not have enough validation to say that Israel should exist. It was not right that Jewish could come into the Pelstinian territory, kick their people out and controll the land, just because they suffered throught the Holocaust. If it was like that then why not give land to the African Americans that were mistreated in the United States. All that Zionism is saying is that "Israel has the right to exist as a democratic Jewish state--nothing more, nothing less" (138). If Isreali poeple want to contunie to live in that land then why just not keep it under the name of Palestine, since that was the original name of the state. I also think that it could be a mixed democratic state in which the people can put rules together and work together for the sake of the state. Also begin deleting the hatred between the people and unite for a better place to live.
Although chapter 4 was kinda intense to read because of all the information Salaita shares with us he tells us a lot of views about Israel. For me im kinda indecisive about whether Israel has the right to exist or not. I agree with my fellow students that people where kicked out from their land for Israel to be formed. I do believe that doing such thing is not the right thing to do, but these people wanted to go somewhere to live so they did that. But then again coming into an innocents persons land and just saying you came here to settle is not the way to do it. I do agree with what some of my classmates say about why didn't Israel people call themselves just as Palestine as a whole. The zionism problems came because of that change in Palestine breaking up and becoming Israel. This has been causing tensions among the people living there. I mean why would someone want to live where there are so many problems why would you want to do such a thing. I guess at the end I do agree that Israel does not have the right to exist because it was unfair to the people already living there.
I feel Israel does have a right to exist but not on Palenstinian land. The fact that its biblical historical evidence as rich boy stated showsthat it is palenstine gives them no right to bombard thepeople living their and stake claim by the use of the united nations. Under the condition that they did suffer due to the holocaist and the polgroms they deserve a safe haven but the palenstinians hadbeen occupying that land for the longest they have biult their economy and culture around that land. ibelieve modern day israel should be placed between germany and the other european countrys who have been terrorizing the israeli people. Asfor Professor Salaitas questtion, is Zionism Racism?, I would argue it isn't. I would argue its is a flawed logic that they have suffered so they deserve reparations,which i feel they do, but its not based on race along and they aren't tryingto downplay another race.
i disagree and agree with Maya. Israel has every right to exisct, howewver just because the land is so called promised to the jews it does not mean they can relocate the Palestines. Zionism is not racism simply because it's just a method to reclaim there land. the Zionist are not racist but selfish.
I would have to disagree with "BeyondDaBaddest", I dont think that Israel should exist because it became theirs unfairly. The UN got involved in 1947 and gave them 55% of Palenstine that they did not deserve. Just because the Zionists wanted to colonize Palenstine to be on their holy land, that did not make it right to just take over Palenstine. In "Anti-Arab Racism in the U.S", Salaita say "Israel, however, is only a democratic state if the 3.5 million Palenstinians in the Occupied Territories and the 1.2 million Palenstinians in Israel are completely forgotten,...". I would definitely have to agree with this because there are millions of Palenstinian people who did and do not want Israel to exist. It is unfair to the Palenstinian people for Iraeli people to just come and conquer Palenstine by killing all of their people and destroying all of their homes. If Israel wants to exist, they should find other land that is not owned.
In my opinion Israel does have a right to exist just like Finland, Poland, Turkey, Austria, France, Romania, Greece, Russia, and Saudi Arabia have a right to exist. Why? Because nobody has the right to make that type of decision. People should be given the right to decide how they choose to live their life based on what they believe in. Israel is a cosmopolitan place in which people come from other places and unite based on their beliefs. Jack Silverstone writes "Israel is a multicultural and multi-ethnic democratic country. Its citizens and residents come from dozens of differing cultural backgrounds. One million of its six million citizens are Arab Muslims and Christians, with several other small minorities, such as Druze, Circassians and Samaritans" (148). These people who have come to Israel have come based on their own willingness. Israel should be allowed to exist, because it is not right to take someone's land because of their religion. However, I do agree with Jamillah in the sense that Israel should be a place for people to visit because they are entitled to it by their religion. Even now many people are having disputes because Israel is considered the holy land. If Israel is not given the right to exist than there will be more disputing than there already is.
I don't think zionism is racist because it is just about jews trying to reclaim the land that they believe is promised to them. They are against the Palestinians not because they are Palestinians, but because they want their land. Now, the way that some Jews go about reclaiming their land might be comsidered rasist depending on their actions, but zionism itself isn't really racist.
When it comes to Isreal having the right to exist, I mostly agree with lili_lovely828. Isreal does have the right to exist like all other countries and no one should be able to decide whether a large piece of land is just wiped out or not. Plus, if that were to happen, both sides will lose. The Jews don't get their promised land and the Palestinians still lose their land. I think this is a matter that cannot be completely solved because as long as both sides exist there will be conflict no matter who gets the land in the end.
The problem with Zionism is that there are many types of Zionism. Some Zionists are looking to force themselves into the land, while others are looking for equal rights for both the Jews and the Arabs. So u can say that Zionism is racist and it isn't.
I think Israel has the same right to exist as any other country. They might not be a "powehouse" country (i.e. the U.S., Russia, China), but there are many countries out there who aren't and still exist because of unity and common beliefs. That's one of the few ways that Israel can exist. Another way is to try the impossible and settle their dispute with the Arabs. It's going to be hard and either way people are going to get hurt. The best thing they can do is try to settle their dispute. Even though it will take a long time, it has the potential of saving Israel.
Im sorry to be responding so late. i haven't been around a computer and since my cousin has internet on her phone, i decieded to do it off of here rather than get a F. But anyways to answer the question does Israel have the right to exsist, i say it depends. On a Historical note, yes Israel does have a right to exsist. In the book Steven Salatia writes " Israel- the historical birthplace of the Jewish people"(137). So therefore, Israel would be cherished by many Jews. However, in all reality, Irael does not deserve to exsist. I mean sure Israel is 'claimed' to be the birthplace of Jews, but it wasn't. Agreeing with Count Olaf, the Jews should've stayed in the innitial place where the war started other than running away. Also, in another sense, i agree with Mya and a few others that Zionists are facing too many problems. Like they have so many different beliefs and views of Israel and Jews that i dont even know weather they know what they want. So bacially Israel is causing too many issues and just need to be eliminated.
Israel does not have the right to exists because they have robed the Palestinians of what is theirs. The zionist believe that this is their land and because of this the Palestinians have been forced to give up their home for beliefs that are not their own.
I believe that Isreal does not have the right to exist beecuase it was not fair for the Palestinians to be forced out of their land that have been living in their whole lives by the British, to accomadate the Isreales. although the isreales say that they wanted to have the land because it was sacred and holy to them because of the holocost doesn't mean they should of been able to have it. although throughout years many people have been taking land from others doesn't mean that it is okay for them.
I don't think Israel should exist because Zionist have alot of problems already. They already trying to take over the Palestinian and if they can get rid of them then would be able to take over Israel. But, think about it though Israel still have the Arabs, even though he wasn't proven to be racism in the article Zionist still have an affect on the Arabs. Also if Zionist still make an effort to take over Israel it's still going to be a problem since Israel still exist. In my opinion I feel that Zionist shouldn't be able to take over Zionist therefore, it shouldn't exist because it taking away the benefits of Arabs and Palestinians.
Greetings, everybody! I've been reading your intelligent postings with much interest.
@Ultross: that is a "great" analysis. I've written a lot about the connections between the Zionist settlement of Palestine and the European settlement of the Americas. Lots of interesting parallels between the two.
If I might contribute my own opinion to this discussion, I would say that I truly cannot disagree with a word anybody has written. Your ideas are complex and insightful. Color me very impressed.
I try not to be too focused on the rights of nation-states to exist. I like to think of the question in terms of the rights of PEOPLE to exist in safety and equality. So, rather than saying Israel does or does not have a right to exist, it might be more productive to think about how Jews and Arabs might COexist. Equality is necessary to coexistence, and unfortunately there is no equality in Israel between Jews and non-Jews.
But in the end, ALL humans, no matter their color, religion, language, or culture, have a right to exist in peace and prosperity. The lack of peace and prosperity is the reason almost all wars take place, including the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Today many words have several different meanings. One of the words is NIGGER. Nigger commonly used, on an everyday basis. The black race has transformed a derogatory term into a normal every day greeting. I don’t know if people fully understand how the word nigger came about or they simply don’t care. Some African Americans are aware of the true hurtful meaning behind the word, but won’t stop using it. They feel if one person is using the word it must be ok….but it isn’t. If they were to go and use the word around one of their great-grandparents I’m pretty sure they would get smacked. In the book J.T. say “he’s not African American he’s a nigger” I can’t imagine how he came about this realization. It seems like he’s just playing the part of being a drug dealer… because it also states that J.T went to college. I would hope that he’s aware of his background. Therefore I simply believe he’s just acting. I question if J.T.’s staff knows that he’s a college graduate? If they don’t he responded just like on of his foot soldiers would.
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