Hi all,
I apologize for the late posting. Replying to this post will be optional (those posting will receive full homework credit, those who don't will not be penalized--consider this "free" points).
Its probably safe to say that the theme of Chapter Five is sex. There's a lot of it...in many forms. What is Rodriguez trying to say about love and sex in the barrio?
Sunday, February 8, 2009
Chapter Five: Sex in the barrio
Posted by Mr. P at 11:09 AM
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43 comments:
Sex is something people into todays society do for pleasure. I guess it's something that will relieve any stress factor. In Chapter 5 it just seemed like that did it because it was there: In their face. Sex is done when two persons love and care for each other. Sex is something so passionate that should only be shared with someone you love. In this chaper i feel that the author is trying to say that the word LOVE has been degraded. Sex is just done, it's lust not love. In todays society this is occuring more. Teenage couples who are parents, have relationships that don't last because they weren't in love when they had sex. There is no relationship to love an sex, if the two people involved don't love each other.
I agree the theme of chapter five would have had to be sex. I think Rodriquez was trying to say that love and sex aren’t related in the way that they are normally perceived. People that had sex in the barrio didn’t love each other. They seemed to have sex just for the purpose of pleasure, and they didn’t seem to share any connection. Sex is something that is supposed to be shared between two people who love and care for each other dearly. Girls in the barrio didn’t value themselves; they gave their sex away freely and didn’t think anything of their virginity. Sex was just something else to do in the barrio; it didn’t have any other meaning. At the young age of fifteen Rodriquez had many partners and didn’t mention being in love with the women he had sex with. He often mentioned stories of females who had sex without even thinking about it, and often offered him sex without hesitation. These types of images and stories that Rodriquez told of helped establish the idea that in the barrio love and sex didn’t relate. Sex wasn’t something that was caused by love; sex was just something to do.
The author is simply trying to say that love and sex just don't fit each other. It's just a means of having fun or just being bored. In chapter 5, no character in the book was having sex because they loved the other person. It was either rape, forcing an alienated women on top of them, or because they wanted to have some fun. Louie made a difference in this chapter by saying "making love." He really did fall in love with Roberta, but Roberta was doing her own thing. Selling her self for money. This profession definitely does not associate love with sex. It's a means to make money. Louie was trying to explain that what he was witnessing in the barrio was a confused conception of sex. You did it out of boredom or fun, and not for anything deeper. Love didn't exist.
OMG I just want to say this chapter was crazy. Because of the way Rodriguez presented the chapter, sex and love in the barrio were not the traditional “commitment and care for one another” connection that we are used to. I think Chicharron’s example of pimping Shoshi is relevant to the fact that true love does not exist in the barrio and if it does, you fall in love with people like prostitutes. Sex and love isn’t taken serious in the barrio. It is just a means for pleasure and sometimes for the men who take advantage of the wasted girls, for power. Sex in the barrio is nothing in connection to a sense of care for one another. In some ways it’s just a basis for survival, whether it is for financial survival, or satisfaction survival.
Interesting thoughts so far...I like seeing the different perspectives you all bring. I want to push back on something:
I'd like to challenge the idea that Luis loves Roberta. He may have thought he loved her...but I'd argue that perhaps it was more lust, than love. On page 127 he describes his meeting with Roberta...it doesn't seem to be nearly as vivid as his encounter with Viviana. Thoughts?
Okay so I believe that the word love and the actions of love have been degraded and maybe even obsolete. It seems to me that sex in the barrio happened because they needed something to do, they needed another escape route from the gangs, and murder besides drugs; something that would make them feel as good as drugs but not so dangerous. As far as love goes, between men and women I don’t believe it existed at all. The only love the guys in the barrio had was for the drugs, the gangs, each other, and the love for sex, but not the women that came along with it.
This chapter is really crazy. The way women were treated as if they were an object. Yes it is lust than love, the way they do indeed take advantage of a girl when they are drunk. The barrio does show that they don't care about, as if it doesn't exist. I agree with Cookie09 "Rodriguez was trying to say that love and sex aren't related". The men in the barrio had love for sex, drugs, and the gang.
I agree with SaltyAce about men in the barrio only having love for drugs, sex, and their gang. I think they seen women as an accessory and the thought of love for women in the barrio did not exsist. Sex did not have a meaning to it. It was done for mostly pleasure and nothing else. I do not think that Luis love Roberta. I agree with everyone who said it was lust. The difference between Viviana and Roberta is that Luis had sex with Roberta and that made him grow closer and develop feelings for her. Luis finding out that she was a prostitute unexpectedly hurted him bad and that led him to believe he love Roberta.
I think that this chapter really was focused on people in the barrio's views on sex and love. The whole situation with the raping of the women was crazy. I mean that dude, i cant remember his name at the moment, but he just got out the car and showed them what was in the back seat and when they declined the naked girl, he just moved on to find someone new. I think that the barrio men don't respect their women, and that they only think of them as objects of pleasure. Although I don't think that Luis loves Roberta, I think that she either loved him or loved how he treated her. Because when I found out that she was a prostitute, but she put Luis over her money and didn't charge him i was kinda shocked. I think that lust and love in the barrio is used as an escape of sorts. The teens find people that show them some kind of affection and they delve into that person.I think that they used the rapes as another way to prove that they were tough.
Mr.Pond, that kinda was supposed to be kind of....sorry.
Chapter five was most definately based around sex. Rodriguez was saying that love and sex weren't connected because sex was a major part in the gang members lives and they weren't in love with all the people they had sex with. I see it as what some people do now, its just for the fun or the pleasure of it. No one wants to be tied down at such a young age. Rodriguez was 15 when he fell in love with Roberta and she was a prostitute. It seemed like she was just in it for the sex while he was looking for love. She didn't want to be in love with him or she would have told him about her job as prostitute. In the barrio it is common to find any girl who is willing to have sex because the girls don't see themselves as being worth anything so give themselves up to anyone. I don't think that there is a such thing as TRUE LOVE in the barrio.
Sex was definitely the focal point in chapter 5. The author's main point was to show how sex and love were not connected in tn the barrio. The guys were more into sex, money and drugs than they were in love. The females seemed to do it just because or to get a guy to look at her differently. I believe this still happens today where teens have sex and don't care or love each other. in the olden days, sex was really for couples who felt strongly for each other or were in love. The point he was trying to make in my opinion was that love didn't exist with teens who had sex with each other. Luiz was even doing it for the fun of it or because opportunity always presented itself. Alcohol had alot to do with it too. When they got wasted they just blamed having sex on the alcohol. I just think it's a shame that the teen girls would get wasted just do a guy could have sex with her. I think that's gross.
He was saying that sex was something that they did for pleasure. Instead of the doing sex for the traditional reasons(To have childeren, have family) they do it just to have fun. Sometimes they do it to make their parents mad or to be defient to some one. When he was talking aboutlove he was trying to say that it was different from sex. Love is what the married people do. That is what you do when you get married and ready to have childeren.
In Chapter 5, Rodriguez witnesses many forms of sex at a young age. Love and sex evolved around his life throughout this chapter, while around the Animal Tribe. He gave up on love, but had lots of sex. After Viviana, he had no more love. I believe his point for telling the story about Roberta, was that love failed for him. She was a prostitute, and deceived his trust. Also, I believe that he's saying they aren't related, and isn't the way people think it is. Love is an emotion and is often felt inside, while sex is physical pleasure. They have nothing to do with each other, and sex was sort of like a hobby in the barrio.
Sex in Chapter 5 was done strictly because of lust and being "in love" with someone. This is similar to current societal actions. People now have sex because they are in love, the attraction is visible, or just because they want to. In most cases, the act is just done and no thought nor feeling is put into the action. This causes single parents and multiple cases of disease. Love is not what it used to be, it is simply a word that is overused and no meaning is put into it. In Chapter 5, Rodriguez is saying that sex and love just happens most times when everyone is under the influence. It is meaningless and there is no point in being committed to just one person. Also with Luis and Roberta, that was simply an attraction which soon vanishes. But, Luis and Viviana had a little more in their relationship than with Roberta. They were in a deep lust that was similar to liking someone. People fail to realize that LOVE and LUST and two different things that are somethings put as equivalent.
I think that Rodriquez is showing that both love and sex are not very interrelated. Meaning that people were having sex with one another for every reason except love. Sex was a means of communication and releasing stress. When I read the chapter I found a lot of connections between the barrio and life in ghettos everywhere. When people are in negative environments I think they try to solve them by covering up the problem. In this books case this is done by taking drugs and having sex. I don’t even think that the people involved in the sex have much respect for themselves or the person they were doing it with. Sex is definitely a primary theme within Chapter Five, in a very bad way.
Sex is something that should be shared between to married people whom are expressing their love for one another. I believe that in this chapter the author is trying to say that sex is something that has no value now that it is done strictly for pleasure and is often between to people whom lust for one another not two people who love each other. I believe that the overall message the author was trying to say was that Love and Sex are down graded and in today’s society almost mean nothing. I believe because sex is portrayed openly on television and you can buy and see it that it means nothing and that no emotions need to be attached because than people become human. The last thing someone wants is to be vulnerable to someone who doesn’t have their best interest in mind. But since sex is “something to do and everyone who is cool is doing it than if you erase the true meaning for it and replace it; to make it seem as if it is an object than it down grades the importance thus the feelings involved.
Sex has to do with passion, or love with one another, so it goes. In the book, Sex can be seen as fun. You have all of these "cholos" who do it mainly when they are under the influence. Love is completely different in the chapter. I do believe Luis falls in love with Roberta, becuase in the end he starts to tear when he finds out that she is a prostitute. With this, it can be said that love was the theme in chapter five.
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Mr. Pond,
To answer your question:
"I'd like to challenge the idea that Luis loves Roberta. He may have thought he loved her...but I'd argue that perhaps it was more lust, than love. On page 127 he describes his meeting with Roberta...it doesn't seem to be nearly as vivid as his encounter with Viviana. Thoughts?
I disagree. Although I do agree with you when he first met Roberta, he just wanted "some" he bagan to build a relatioship with her, sort of like building up there love. But again, in the end when Robertas sister tells Luis what Roberta really does, he begins to tear. Luis even say that he wished that she or someone was to tell him, sort of implying that he would have liked to work through it.
This chapter is indeed racy, and Rodriguez is saying love and sex do not fall in the same category. Sex can be seen as only fun with the other gangbanging females, but love is real different in the sense that sex does not have to be associated with love. But this can go both ways, seeing how Luis fell in love with Roberta after using her to fulfill his sexual urges.
Rodriguez is trying to say that sex ... its not really sex in this chapter. its more like rape from Fuzzy and Puppet. Sex is needed in the barrio. if he is portraying his two "friends" as raping elementary school girls then they must be desperate and they really need it.
Yeah chapter 5 was very ummmm interesting. I think Rodriguez was just proving how love and sex were two things that had nothing to do with each other. Sex in the barrio was something to do just for pleasure, partying, and getting wasted; nothing to do with the love a couple has for each other. I believe he also means that sex can lead to someone feeling as if they were in love when in reality, they don't even know how true love feels. All of it was just lust, no love at all. When Rodriguez and his friends went out, they weren't looking for love, there were just looking for females to take advantage of, they liked the feelings of drugs and sex very much. Also, in the middle of the chapter, Rodriguez states that he was just tired of "love." Love probably has a different and false definition in barrios.
The thing that Rodriguez is trying to say about sex in the barrio is that there is less love and more sex. Sex is when two people have lust for each other and it is in the moment. Love is something that is built up over a long period of time and it is not in the moment.I think that the teenagers in the barrio are having sex because they are thinking that there may not be other people to love, but there will always be other people to have sex with.
Rodriguez is saying, in my opinion, that love and sex do not exist in the ways that we see them today. Sex in the barrio was simply something to do a way to release anger and frustration. This is seen by the continous rapings of women in the book. Love is a rare occurence in this chapter because Louis falls in love with a prostitute and he dosen't even she sells her sex. Basically love was really unheard of in the barrio and is really the second time he mentions it. Sex however is not as rare and is a common theme but is not associated with love.
I believe he was trying to show how love and sex don't have any relation with each other anymore like they supposed to. In the barrio they just had sex with no love emotions attached. He wanted readers to see how love didn't affect sex and sex didn't have any affect on love. Sex was done and love was excluded when sex occurred. Then he fell in love with a women whose job it was to have sex with men she didn't love. She represented the relationship with sex and love.
Omg the way sex was portrayed in the book was crazy. I agree with a a lot of the students when they said sex doesn't have any emotions when you are not in love or just doing it. But Luiz get's his feelings hurt later in the book when he finds out Roberta wasn't feeling the same way about their intimate relationship the same he was, because she was out prostituting. So it seems like as soon as Luiz puts his emotions into their relationship he gets his feelings hurt. BUT OMG the way those boys were raping the young girls it was ridiculous and sad...I felt bad for those girls!
The hooker in this chapter was the relaionship between love and sex to Luis. He used extraordinary symbolism in this chapter which would be difficult to notice if you are distracted with the sex in this chapter. He was trying to say that sex has nothing to do with love. People have sex for benefit of themselves whether it be money, stabal;ization, or just plain enjoyment. Luis conveyed this excellently
It’s very obvious that the theme of this chapter was sex. The people in the barrio didn’t have sex for reproductive purposes, which is what it was intended for, but more so that they can get pleasure. In away it was just another way for Luis and his peers to escape form the harsh reality that they lived in.
Sex was also shown as a means for survival. Roberta actually turned tricks not because she liked it but because she needed to pay the rent in order to keep a roof over her head. She also used it as a away to take care of her family. By saying this I mean keeping up her sister’s addiction. Its sad but it a reality and if that is all that you have to offer than I say used what you got to get what you want.
Love was not a familiar concept to the people in the barrio. Men either had sex to fell good or they raped and pimped women to prove that they had some type of power advantage over women. Women only did it to make money of because they felt that it was all they had to offer.
Love was not a familiar concept to the people in the barrio. Love is something that has different meaning to everybody so you can’t automatically assume that Luis only lusted for Roberta he probably did care for Roberta. How ever I do think that there was a major difference in the way that he remembered Viviana as opposed to Roberta. He went into detail when describing Roberta only when she was naked. Viviana got to keep her clothes on. I do think that there was a love but not for each other but for the love of sex.
I do agree with the fact that the theme of Chapter 5 would be sex. I feel that Rodriguez is trying to use sex as a stress reliever for the most part in this chapter. Throughout the chapter the sex was just basically thrown at the characters. It was there for pleasure as well as what ever else they may have wanted it for. I do agree with Stephanie when she says that LOVE is being degraded. I agree with that because when people have sex some may consider it making love but how can you make love when you don’t love the person whom you're having sex with???
I think it is fair to say that sex is the theme of chapter five. I think Rodriguez is trying to say that there is no connection between love and sex in the barrios. The people in the barrios have sex just because it gives them pleasure or gives something to do. They don’t have sex with someone because they love them they do because it is another way for them to escape from the problems surrounding them. Luis finds that he isn’t really in love with Roberto it is just lust. In the chapter you get to see how the barrios use sex instead of drugs.
Chapter Five definitely had a lot of sexy-time (words of Mr. Myers)! I believe Rodriguez is trying to say that there was love and there was sex, but there was no connection between the two. In chapter five readers are introduced to Roberta. Luis develops strong feelings for Roberta and they become sexually involved, but by the way Rodriguez told the story I never thought to myself when they were having sex that they were making love. Then it all made sense when I read that Roberta was a prostitute. In the Barrio, sex was used for pleasure not a form of commitment of mutual feelings of love. This is seen in Roberta’s job as a prostitute and how Chicharron pimped Shoshi. Although money played a part in why sex lost its connection with love, some people in the Barrio saw money as having more “value” so it result it crushed the idea of love and made sex more for pleasure and profit then intimacy and romance.
In todays world sex means pleasure. To me in the book it seemed like so much sex was going on because it was there many the girls put themselves out there like that.When I think of sex, I think that you have sex with people that you care about not jst do it because their there. In this book I definantly feel that love is confused with sex. Sex is more so being confused by lust NOT love. In todays society this is occuring more and more, you see people thinking that their in love but really their in lust. This leads to hight teenage baby rates. So to sum it all up Sex is not love if you're not in love its simply lust. Intercourse between two humans so to speak.
Love and sex in the Barrio are two disconnected entities..among teens today love is oblivious to sexual relations. Many times sex is defined based on physical - hormonal atraction to the same or opposite sex. Women in this chapter are seen as decoration for a pleasure/entertainment for the male characters. Depicting women as decisive in sex acts, but not in intelligence.
I think he is trying to say that sex is a 'whatever' thing thses days. People have sex just to have it for pleasure and its not something they do when their in love and in a relationship. Its just something they do just to do it. He's also trying to say that people have no age limits for the people thier having sex with it. Its just if thier old enough to think they can have sex its ok. People are having sex at a younger and younger age and they are doing whereever they can with whoever they want to just to get a 10 min satisfaction.
I think that he is saying that this is what takes place mostly in the barrios besides gangs and violence Because in this chapter there is consensual sex, rape, and prostitution.This also makes the point that sex is not what is used to be. Because people used to value their bodies and treat their bodies like temples. But today people just have sex because its just something to do. But Luis's attachment to Roberta was both love and lust because he was heartbroken when he found out that she was a prostitute because he thought of her as "his girl" and it hurt him that any man could have what he valued the passion and feelings that he had when he had sex with Roberta. But this was also a lustful relationship because every night that Luis went to visit Roberta they had sex.
Through chapter five, I think Rodriguez is saying that sex in the barrio is often confused with love. I also think he is saying that sex was one of their outlets from worries about life.
Rodriguez is saying that love and sex have nothing to do with each other. He is very young to the whole love feelings, and gets very confused everytime he meets a girl. He thought that love and sex went hand and hand and they have very little to do with each other. You can have sex whenever you want and for what ever reason you want. When your in love the reason for haveing sex is totally changed. You do it because your feelings for the other person are very deep. Ths the name is changed and it is now called love making. He used this term unaware that they were not in love. They were simply jus having sex, like any other horny teenager.
Agreeing with what Stephypoo was saying, i believe that the word love was just being tossed around. You become intimate with another person when you feel that it is the right time, or when you feel like you have found love. In this chapter love really didn't exist. They just used it because they felt that it was apprpriate to say it. Just because you have sexual intercourse with someone, doesn;t mean that you are in love. He was basically saying that people feel that they are in love do to the fact that they have had sex. And in this case, i strongly disagree.
I feel as though he is saying in the barrio sex is just something hey did. Such as Stephypoo said just like todays society it is just for pleasure nothing more. I just believe they did it because their was nothing else to do. However sex is a strong connection between two people that love each other. I don't believe people should just have sex they don't love or care about. Your body is a temple just don't be giving the good up to anybody. I don't believe they know what love is in the barrio. Simply because they are too young and don't understand the true defintion of it
I agree with the theme of sex. In the barrio, he is saying that love and sex are not perceived in the manner as they should be. Sex was something you did when you were bored; no love involved. Sex is supposed to be when two people love each other, but in the barrio, as started before, sex was something to do to have fun or if you were bored and had nothing else to do.
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