In the first half of chapter 3 Venkatesh describes the fascinating and bizarre relationships between gangs and politics. What do you think about this relationship? Do you believe it still exists today? When responding be sure to use at least one quote/reference from the reading and respond to at least one other post.
Monday, January 25, 2010
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"Well,see, an alderman can take the heat off of us...an alderman can keep the police away." p. 74
I think that the relationship between gang memebers and politicians is insane. I feel that the politicians are snakes for making campaign promises to keep the community safe, when behind closed doors, they are contributing to the gang's success. Like J.T. said, by having a paid relationship with politicians, the gang recieve less police interaction around their turf. But I don't believe that politicians should recieve the money from gangs in exchange for security in the gang's existence. That's very decieving to me. People look to the politicians ,mainly to end the violence, not to contribute to it. But in the end, its all about the money.
I do believe this still exists, if not more. Politics is a verrrry corrupt subject and the people involved would go to extreme lengths in order to get what they want. Money plays a huge factor in this issue and when money is brought into the picture, most people generally don't care who they are affecting;it's all about them at that moment.
“He firmly believed that the community would be stronger when the Black Kings entered the mainstream.” Pg.83
I think that it is crazy how politician would betray the community for some low-life gang members. Also I agree with Kiersten that these politician are snakes for making promises how they would help the community when actually there not because they are letting the gang members sell drug in their community which is corrupt the people in the community. I do still believe that it happens today because on the news we are hearing about all these corrupt city officials. I also believe that it is still happening today because people are being motivated by money to do things that wouldn’t be expected to be done by them.
"I'd been reading about the history of Chicago political machine, whose leaders-white and black alike-were famous for practicing the dark arts of ballot stuffing, bribery, and yes, redelivered voting blocs." (pg. 77)
I honestly believe that this quote truly captures what makes up Chicago politics, both in the past and present. It's sad to say, but Chicago has never been, and may never be, known for its "trustworthy" senators and mayors. However, we are known for our heavy gang activity, (first the variety of mafia's, and now the variety of drug-peddling street gangs), and the fact that many of these gangs have been known to "show support" for certain politicians. By show support, I mean tamper with the voters and their ballots to get whom they want in office…well… IN OFFICE! They both may attempt to use intimidation as a tool of persuasion. And like Kiersten said, in the end, they're both after money.
Money is the half the key to all, and they don't care where it came from or how many people they've killed to get it. The other half of the key is power, and once they've had a taste of it, they will do everything they can (including illegal activities) to hold on to that power; no matter how small an amount it may be. Yes, this is sad, but it's true, and no one ever said the truth had to be happy!
I believe that the politicians that go through with these bribes are corrupt and do nothing but worsen the community. infact this is a crime against the politicains. i do still believe that this is happening today. this could not help the community so J.T. says. "like i keep telling you, our organization is about helping our community, so we're trying to get involved in whats happening" pg. (74) how is helping gangs distribute crack helping your community. as a politician you're contradicting your job.
"An alderman makes sure the cops don't come."pg74
I think the relationship between the gangs and politics is weird due to the fact the politics are suppose to keep the gangs off the street but at the same time they are working with the gang members, the gang members are the same people who are supplying the drugs on the street. The politicians are suppose to influence the gang members to not sell drugs or join gangs and not to corrupt the neighborhood but he doing the total opposite. The quote on page 74 basically is telling why the gangs get so close to the politicians in order to have a certain protection with the law enforcement. I agree with Cyclops that the relationship between the politics and gangs are still the same will not change due to the fact people are so corrupted by money and will do anything for money including protect the evil and lie. Far as J.T is very smart and he knows by being on the good side of the politicians he will be protected from the police and he know the politicians will do as he says for money.
Casey Marie Says:
When Venkatesh describes the relationship between gangs and politics I completely believed everything. Gangs need protection against the people who decide their fate, police, so who better to come to for help then aldermen and mayors. Like J.T says an alderman can get the police off their backs, make sure residents aren't upset with them etc. I feel this relationship is whats wrong with our society today... so many scandals. Why are aldermen and mayors getting involve in illegal activity?? Why are they trying to protect the gangs, the people who are putting the drugs on the streets even further. I do believe this activity is still going on today because everyone is just so hungry for power and a dollar.Not many people want to get into politics to make a difference, just look at our former govenor Rob Blagojevich. Therefore, I completely agree with Kiersten saying the relationship between gang memembers and politicians is insane.
"Well see, an alderman can take the heat off of us." p. 74
I believe that the relationship between gangs and politics is not very surprising. I also believe that it still exists today. This is because a lot of the local politicians and aldermen are former gang members and they know that the gangs need a way to keep their money safe, which involves politics sometimes. They are members of the community, and they know how things work. Some of the politicians also may not be as determined as they seem to better the community. They may just want to be on top and have power. I don’t believe what politicians do concerning gangs is right, but it is not surprising once you consider most politicians' past.
I agree with Maya about how politicians are supposed to keep gangs off the street, but I think there is a reason why they still help the gangs. Even if the politicians don't like the activities of the gangs and the reasons the gangs need them, they end up protecting them because of the need of the large amount of votes the gangs can achieve for them.
“An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents don't get too pissed off at us. Let's sat we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come” (74).
I do believe that the relationship between the gangs and politics still exist today, there is no other explanation of why they have become so powerful in the city. If there was no relationship what so ever I think that things would be more under control per say. Both police and politicians know where the gangs are situated at and it would be easy to capture its members if they really proposed it. I agree with Maya and Cyclops, there is corruption in politics and things wont change any time soon like that. People now days don't think about others without thinking about how they are going to benefit themselves, and proof of that is the quote on pg 74. The government and police are supposed to be protecting and keeping the community safe and instead they are covering up for the illicit actions of the gangs. Who will protect the communities, if the politicians have already made pacts with the gangs? All of this revolves around money, if people have money to give then more than likely things will get done their way; just as J.T. Said “and the only thing they want from us is a donation” (74).
So, the idea of politicians being a part of it isnt surprising. I believe that it is still going on right now in todays society. What i did find shocking was that they said that they make the foot soldiers register to vote and attend the meeting they really are trying to help the community in a way like they said they are. J.T told Sudhir "Even the gang needs friends with connections" which is true case how do they really make it to be that big, and expand in the gang worls without getting caught and put to an end. Especially here in chicago everything is like messed up. I agree with Kiersten in her last point when she says that politics are corrupt, she says it all.
"You can change the world if you get the niggers that are coming down on you out of power. Think about it: No more police stopping you, no more abandoned buildings. You control your destiny!" pg. 76-77
A relationship between gang members and politicians...its not surprising to hear politicians being bribed to keep the law off gangs. I think its really unfair to allow gangs to run wild in the streets endangering innocent bystanders for no reason. Gangs became really smart in the past couple of decades. I guess they are willing to get what they want by any means necessary. Of course I believe that I mean its the same game just different players. Alderman Troutman is being sent to jail this instant for helping out a gang. She got caught because one of the gang members were held up.
"I'd been reading about they history of the Chicago political machine, whose leaders-white and black alike-were famous for practicing the dark art of ballot stuffing,bribery,and yes,redelivered voting blocks." p. 77
I think that the relationship between the gangs and the politicians is something that has been going on since the beginning of politics. If a politician needs funding for its campaign or re-election of course they are going to turn to the gangs for help in money of votes and as a way of paying back they will do some favors for them just like J.T said in page 74, " an alderman can take the heat off of us". That is just the way that some politicians are and of course they are the ones that end up winning. I know that this is something that is wrong because their job is to help the people not the gangs but as long as there are politicians willing to get involved with illegal money this relationship will still continue to be and the only thing that we can do is choose the official that we know can protect our rights.
"Well, see and alderman can take the heat off of us...an alderman can keep the police away." p. 74
I think the relationship between politics and gang members is quite facsinating. They have this whole seperate world of corruption and they try to cover it up and make excuses for what they're really doing which is hilarious. I definitely believe this relationship still exists today. They only difference is that the connections are much bigger than back then. The gang members only have become more intelligent when it comes to having friends in high places. Corruption is not new to politics so why not throw some gang activity in the mix. I completely agree with Kiersten.
I actually find the relationship between the gangs and politics quite interesting. It does show how much influence gangs have over a the community. It makes you wonder whos more corrupt the political figure that uses the gangs that sell drugs or the gang itself.
"I'd been reading about the history of Chicago political machine, whose leaders-white and black alike-were famous for practicing the dark arts of ballot stuffing, bribery, and yes, redelivered voting blocs." pg. 77
Honestly I'm not surprised that political figures would request the assistance of gangs, their influence in certain communities far overpowers theirs, plus they have the advantage of not being tied down by "good P.R." and all that jazz.
I don't think the relationship has changed like the other posters have said. Its pretty much all about money, and the politicians and gang members have entered a "you scratch my back I'll keep the police off yours" agreement
I think that even though the relationship between gangs and politicians does not sound right it is something that does happen and I believe that it can even happen today, and agree with most of the people under me. If a gang does not want to get interrupted while doing "business" they can buy a politician to stop from cops coming as he stated on page 74,"Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us, ... An alderman can keep the police away. ... The alderman makes sure the cops dont come. And the only thing they want from us is a donation - ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year." I think that politicans already do not care enough as they should about bad neighboorhoods and "projects". If a gang is going to pay them to do what they really want to do already, it is better for them. I believe that when they do this, it is as if politicians and gangs are working together to not better the community, but making it worse. Politicians should be making communities better and having better neighborhoods, but do the opposite. Politicians do not really care about neighborhoods like this and about gangs, even when something serious does happen and they really need cops, they are not there. Sometimes politicians just do what it seems as if they are helping and doing something positive, but really it is something good for them.
The fact that politicians takes sides of the gang bangers before the community members is very disturbing to me because in that case the gangs have control of the area through the aldermen. But as I think about how some communities are being operated and how the crime in some areas are very high and nothing is being done about it, I do think this is an ongoing relationship. Like J.T said “by having a paid relationship with politicians, the gang receive less police interaction around their turf”. One thing I do with is Kiersten comment about the Politian’s being insane because if you did sign up for a political job then you would end corruption not encourage it.
I found it very interesting that the gang actually can afford to pay off an Alderman. They want this guy for protection, to avoid police men and people getting sent to jail. "An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents... ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year" (pg. 74). Besides this, it is still wrong for the gang to go around and force people to vote for whatever the gang prefers. I agree with Cyclops when they state that everyone will do anything for money now. Money takes a big role when politicians do the wrong decision or act.
"Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off us...so we're trying to get involved in whats happening" (74).
Unfortunately it doesnt surprise me that politicians would have relationships with gangs. I believe that it still exists today especially in communities like the one in the book. Politicians and gangs have something to bargain with. The politicians use gangs to get the vote of the people while the gangs use politicians to make it easier for them to be around without getting caught. Its not right and both groups are "supposed" to be against each other because they both believe and represent different things. In reality they use and might even need each other. Both do whatever is convinient for them.
I agree with Cathy on the fact that relationships between gangs and politicians still exist. Eventough it sounds wrong that there's an alliance between them, the politicians do it to benefit themselves. Just as J.T says on pg 74,"Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us, ... An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents don't get too pissed off at us ... The alderman makes sure the cops don't come. And the only thing they want from us is a donation - ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year." I think that now gangs have the power to buy anything, specially an alderman. It's so weird how the gangs can just take control over almost everything. Like J.T was saying, the Black Kings could get anyone and make them vote for who they wanted to. They have the money and can buy anything and anyone for their own protection. As long as Politicians and alderman get money they will remain quite and help the gangs. I see this as an issue because the politicians are not helping the community, they are just exposing the community to danger. I think there should be something done about this issue because the more alderman help the gangs, the less problems that would be resolved in the community.
"Well see and alderman can take the heat off of us... Let's say we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come... Like I keep telling you, our organization is about helping our community..." pg. 74.
I think the relationship isn't as crazy or unexpected as some people may think it is. Gangs need something/someone to make sure they don't get caught doing whatever it is they might be doing. If it wasn't for their "relationship" with the aldermen, most of them would be getting arrested. As for now, I'm sure it still happens. If it didn't, it would probably be a lot easier to arrest drug dealers and gang members. The one thing i found interesting is how after J.T. explains what exactly he needs the alderman for, he reiterates that his organization is about the community and makes it seem like a clean organization. In a way I think he's trying to sugarcoat the bad things he, or his gang, does by saying their community oriented.
LaTasha: I think that the whole relationship between gangs and politicians are stupid in the book and unrealistic in now a day. The reason I say this is because, I agree with Venkatesh when he questions J.T.'s claim about "helping our community" (p. 75), and how J.T. believes that "bribing politicians would somehow help a down-and-out neighborhood pick itself up?" (p. 75), because I feel that communicating with politicians doesn't help the community it only helps the gangs do crime without hassle. Also today I think that doesn't really happen anymore, since politicians are only looking out for themselves and can do better without the help from gangs. Also I think there isn't much of a privilege that a gang really wants because there not that popular anymore.
In response to Cyclops, I also agree that it's ridiculous that politicians would disregard their mission just for extra money for gangs...knowing that gangs are the leading cause to community problems.
"Conservatives attacked the crack epidemic by supporting mass arrests and hefty prison sentences"p72 At the beginning of this chapter the relationship between gangs and politicians was extremely negative with one trying to conquer the other.
As the chapter continues this relationship seem to be platonic. The gangs need the politicians so that they wont get arrested, and the politicians receive bonuses from the gang. The relationship is extremely corrupt. "The alderman makes sure the cops don't come. And the only thing they want from is a donation - ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year. p74
There is a third part of relationships between politics and gangs. The gangs want to be informed on what is happening in their neighborhood. No matter what their intentions are it is beneficial to the neighborhood. " worked to bring jobs and housing to the neighborhood, tried to keep kids off the street with recreation programs".p75
I know that the relationship between gangs and politicians exist today. Alderman clearly have a relationship with their different scandals dealing with money. Gangs and politicians create a sort of strong bond, and it is hard to break that bond especially when money is involved.
I somewhat find this relationship surprising. Its pretty obvious that politicians are involved in shady acts such as bribery, but i didn't think gangs could pay them off so easily.
"Let's say we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come. And the only thing they want from us is a donation -- ten thousand dollars gets you an slderman for a year." (pg. 74)
Lots of people will do lots of things for ten thousand dollars...so I can understand shady deals done by politicians. I find it funny how simply J.T. states it, almost as if its a simple pay-and-receive, no strings attached business, even though I'm sure its gotta be more complicated than that.
I agree with Ro² =], because it does seem that money will make people do anything, but also I think the relationship is an example of the powerful working to keep their power. The gang uses their power to influence the residents to vote for whoever would help them later. Its sad since the politicians are no better; they protect the gangs just to get richer. Its the elite protecting the elite, with all questions of legality pushed aside.
"ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year'' pg 74...It is because of this quote that I do think that gangs still have that relationship with politics, even though I believe its a little weird. You wouldn't think that gangs and politicians would be making deals, but I guess everyone can be a little corrupt. I completely agree with Kiersten because I also think politicians are snakes for saying that they will keep the communities safe, but are making deals with gangs on the side. They are only keeping politicains around for longer and now the gangs can keep them for a year!
I agree with dre about not being surprised about the gangs relationship with politicians. Thry need people to cover their butts when they're gonna get in trouble. On pg. 77 when Lenny is giving his speech I found a few things to be very interesting. First, he tells them they need to do something with their lives, then he says they need to keep up their image in the community because they represent the BKs as a unit, finally he tells them they have to go out vote, and sign others up to vote without giving them any knowledge on how the process works. He gives them a list of names they are supposed to vote for and people they should encourage others to vote for. These politicians are obviously the ones who are covering for the gangsters for something in return. The politicians knew the gangs had a lot of power and if they worked with the gangs they could easily win the election. I think politicians still work with gangs today because gangs still exsist and its hard to shut them down. However, I also feel that the amount of politicians working with gangs have lessened. Simply because its too much work trying to cover for gangs, yourself, and give the community what they want. Plus technology has advanced so much its hard to find places to be illegal and not get caught.
“Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us,”…. “The alderman makes sure the cops don’t come.” (J.T. 74)
The relationship between the gangs and the politicians does not surprise me. At first, I was shocked because I had never thought of it like that. This relationship is completely crazy. I do not understand how politicians would be low enough to use gangs to get better votes and support. Although it’s completely crazy, it’s very clever. The gangs and politicians are having the relationship of “you scratch my back, I scratch yours.” The politicians are happy and the gangs are happy and safe from the police. I agree with Maya, with fact that the politicians are supposed to have a large influence on these gangs, but their doing the exact opposite, getting them more and more into trouble.
I also agree with Cyclops and Maya that this relationship between the gang and politicians still goes on today. Everyone needs money, if they know a way to get it; they will literally do anything, just like the politicians. I think that relationship is not only the same, it’s probably stronger and even more corrupt because things have changed and there’s more things the gangs and politicians can get in return, instead of just money and protection. It’s just really sad to see how corrupt a society can be just to have money.
The relationship Venkatesh describes in Chapter 3 between gangs and politicians can be seen in programs that give just as good as an explanation as he does. Shows such as The Wire, the Shield, & the Corner and although unlike the book they are fiction they are written and put together by people who use to be in law enforcement and brought their experiences to the screen. I believe that the relationship between gangs and politicians presented in chapter 3 as well as these programs are extremely realistic.
"The alderman makes sure the cops don't come. And the only thing they want from us is a donation-ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year." (p. 74)
I feel that most gangs back then relayed on these kinds of relationships, simply because it allowed the gangs to "work" with minimum legal interference, which created opportunities to make more money. I definitely feel that this does in fact happen today, however I can't say how much. I agree with Venkatesh's confusion from J.T.'s statement...
"our organization is about helping our community , so we're trying to get involved in what's happening."
Selling drugs and distributing them throughout the community does not help the people nor does it help the neighborhood "pick itself up", it only causes more damage and I would have to agree 100% with (tasha) when she says that the aldermen completely disregards their responsibilities to the people and by working with the drug dealers they only make things worse. I believe the relationship is a despicable act of crime and it is a shame that it was ever formed.
Alim
Period 7
1/29/10
I will start off my response to the question at hand with a quote from Venkatesh.
"Prosecutors won the right to treat gangs as organized criminal groups, which produced longer prison sentences. Judges gave the police permission to conduct warrantless searches and to round up suspected gang members who were hanging out in public spaces." (Page 72)
As you can see in the quote there, it most definately seems that the politics are against gangs. And yes, I still do believe that they are still against the gangs. Possibly even more now since gangs have grew and are not like how they used to be back then. People may not notice, may not know, or may not even care what is going on between the politics and the gangs, but if you watch it still is pretty obvious. I live in the Englewood area, so I have seen some action (not MAJOR things) take place around my neighborhood and the police sometimes being one of the main people involved. For example, as Venkatesh stated, doing warrantless searches. Sometimes though, just like back then, then police do not show up because of the fear of what may happen, especially if the gang is deep in the area. However, sometimes there may be a helping hand in the politics, but it costs. The alderman being that person(s), which J.T. mentioned, they could keep the police away. (Page 75) It is always loop holes. But yes, I do believe that the bad relationship still exists, and may actually be getting worse. As it seems though, money is just about the only way out of it, so gangs better start getting that $$...
I think that the relationship between the gang and politicians is crazy. I mean politicians suppose to keep the gang memebers off the streets to keep the communities protected but instead they are supporting what the gang members are doing. I mean yeah I understand that gang members are doing for the community and the politicians but at the same time the politicians are making the community and everybody else think that are doing what they suppose to but behind closed doors they are rewarding the gangs for their success. "Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us, an alderman can keep the police away." I really don't support this because why will the alderman protect the gangs when the police is trying to sweep the gangs off the streets to have a better community. I think the alderman is up to something. I still think this still exist because many cities are being corrupted by gangs today. I also, think the polticians still play a big role in it too becuae they in it for the money. I totally agree with what Kiersten said about at the end it's all about money, because drug dealers are selling products for the money to make themselves look like something and everybody else is in it to take action for the money that's coming in.
Growing up, my mother has always told me about my granddad and how he was "knee-deep" into politics and how corrupt it is. I believed J.T. when he said that he has relations with poloticians because I knew that it was true and real. J.T. mentions how he gives people of higher power money to get federal government off him and his gangs. That would make since because how else would he never get caught if he didn't have people of higher power supporting him.
"we're working together for the community" pg. 82
I think anyone who is involved with politicians is trying to make things better for their own community. They use their connections with politics to get what they want done. Some politicians are drug addicts and if gangs supply drugs they might help them back. I disagree with itslovely where she says they never get caught. It still exists today and even cops know it's happening but like the connection with politicians they offer the police something and they let them continue doing what they're doing. I think everyone forms relationships with people of different backgrounds and careers so if you need a lawyer you can ask one of your lawyer friends or if you need a doctor you can ask your doctor friend. Everyone is guilty of doing this.
In my opinion, gangs and political relations are simple to understand, it shouldn’t be. The thought of gangs and politics is actually a contradiction and can be considered an oxymoron (a political gangster). Even though this is so, I still feel that this relationship is beneficial to both parties. In the sense of the gangsters, it benefits them because it allows them protection and safety from the police. "Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us...an alderman can keep the police away." (p. 74) This quote shows how the aldermen help the gangsters to stay out the eyes of the police and out the law’s eyes. In the sense of politics, aldermen benefit from the gangsters through votes and assistances to help in their offices. Aldermen, in Chicago, are known to be crooked have bad experiences with their government. So in my opinion this is relationship is wrong but it also is a benefitting agreement.
I beleive that the relationship between gang members and politicians still exist.I agree with Kiersten that politicians are snakes for doing it but, even though i feel that it is very wrong and bogus i think that it is very common now days. "Even the gang needs freinds with connections," I think that this is how most criminals think today, such as prostitutes,they give police officers free "things" to keep their mouths shut.
[Z o e B e a J o n e s]
I am not surprised with the relationship. I was actually waiting for politicians to be mentioned. Because the gang bangers and drug dealers reside in districts certain politicians try to use them for votes. Earlier in the text, it was mentioned that EVERYONE was in and aware of everything they takes place in the Robert Taylor homes. As long as politicians need the votes of the people in the district, these actions will still be going on. I kind of stated this in class, but actions such as this harms the communities. Because the politicians are in on it, they are not electing someone who is willing to produce a change in the community. These actions are hindering the growth of the community and the progression of the people within them I do not think it is fair for the people who actually want to become something. If a person is surrounded around corruption, deception drugs, and other harmful ideologies more than likely the person will adapt and pick up these negative connotations.
"…alderman makes sure the cops don't come…and the only thing they want from us is a donation-ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year." (74) The alderman in this district should be ashamed because he/or she is not in office for the benefit of the people. I think whoever is in charge should ashamed of them. Ultros the Great mentioned a great quote "I'd been reading about the history of Chicago political machine, whose leaders-white and black alike-were famous for practicing the dark arts of ballot stuffing, bribery, and yes, redelivered voting blocs." (77)
As far as the whole “qanqs & politicians” relationship,, I think it’s a huqe barrier in today’s society that not many are aware of. Before reading this book,, I would have NEVER imaqined that qanq members were in any way, shape, or form affiliated w/ politicians. If anythinq,, I would assume that qanq members are not tryinq to be anywhere near politicians. But apparently,, “"An alderman makes sure the cops don't come."pg74. If you really sit down and think about it,, havinq a politician on your side makes sense. The qanq business is very risky and havinq the support of someone of a hiqher power makes sense. I don’t condone it,, but it does make A L0T of sense. In the book,, JT openly says how havinq a money based relationship with the politicians keeps them off their backs as far as qanq related offenses and thinqs of that sort. Like I previously stated,, it makes sense. And as far as thinqs like this happeninq in today’s society,, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Majority of people are money driven,, especially politicians (Rod Blagoevich]. That’s one thinq I don’t qet thouqh,, before they siqned up to be a politician,, they knew the income//salary. So if it didn’t meet their requirements they should have thouqht about a different profession. Makinq little side deals to have more money is too risky and if people are still doinq it in today’s society,, especially with qanq members like JT then they should be very very sneaky and careful before they qet cauqht up.! If I had to agree w/ anyone it wuld be my Kierst.! (Kiersten Porter]. Mainly because I also think that politicians are supposed to ST0PING violence,, not enhancinq or contributinq to it. But its more than evident that “money rules EVERYTHING.” Smh.
As far as the whole “qanqs & politicians” relationship,, I think it’s a huqe barrier in today’s society that not many are aware of. Before reading this book,, I would have NEVER imaqined that qanq members were in any way, shape, or form affiliated w/ politicians. If anythinq,, I would assume that qanq members are not tryinq to be anywhere near politicians. But apparently,, “"An alderman makes sure the cops don't come."pg74. If you really sit down and think about it,, havinq a politician on your side makes sense. The qanq business is very risky and havinq the support of someone of a hiqher power makes sense. I don’t condone it,, but it does make A L0T of sense. In the book,, JT openly says how havinq a money based relationship with the politicians keeps them off their backs as far as qanq related offenses and thinqs of that sort. Like I previously stated,, it makes sense. And as far as thinqs like this happeninq in today’s society,, I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Majority of people are money driven,, especially politicians (Rod Blagoevich]. That’s one thinq I don’t qet thouqh,, before they siqned up to be a politician,, they knew the income//salary. So if it didn’t meet their requirements they should have thouqht about a different profession. Makinq little side deals to have more money is too risky and if people are still doinq it in today’s society,, especially with qanq members like JT then they should be very very sneaky and careful before they qet cauqht up.! If I had to agree w/ anyone it wuld be my Kierst.! (Kiersten Porter]. Mainly because I also think that politicians are supposed to ST0PING violence,, not enhancinq or contributinq to it. But its more than evident that “money rules EVERYTHING.” Smh.
"Even more surprising was J.T.'s claim about "helping our community". Was this a joke, I wondered, or did he really believe that selling drugs and bribing politicians would somehow help a down-and-out neighborhood pick itsefl up." pg. 75
When i read this part of the chapter it did not surprise me that the Black Kings tried to bribe politicians such as alderman to get what they want. Them getting someone in office that they could use as a puppet would keep the police off of the which would increase buisness. This is essential for any crack gangs success because with out "crooked" political figures they can't really make the money they need to survive. I totally agree with Cyclops's statement about how politians betray their community for a couple thousand dollars. this just goes to show how most people only look out for themselves and what they can get.
Politics can sometimes be a complicated and overwhelming issue because you usually only know what is in the news and if you even watch the news. Also, alot of the more intresting information occurs behind closed doors. I guess that this is one of the reasons some indivuals just don't pay attention to it."You can't read, you can't think, you can't understand where the power comes from. It don't come from the gun you got-it comes from what's in your head. And it comes from the vote." I completly think that this is true. Aldermen and other political figures care for the people that care about them. And you show you care by voting. I feel like this is the reason why some of the lower income communitys don't recieve as much attentiion and maintence as they should because they are not active voters. Some people think well I am just one vote, I'm not going to make a difference, but to the politians, votes mean everything. Gangs fit into the picture by sometimes financing some of their events even though the money is corrupt. But there is still corruption going to happen in gangs and in politics. And in turn they do not come knocking on the doors. But I deffinitly do think that this type of relationship still occurs in our socity. I also COMPLETLY agree with Kiersten that it is all about the money. I mean money makes the world go around.
"Like I keep telling you, our organization is about helping our community, so we're trying to get involved with what's happening." p. 74
The relationship between politicians and gangs does not surprise me at all, just like it doesn't surprise anyone else, because Chicago has a history of corrupt government officials. Although it's not morally correct for the politicians to help gang members and vice versa, JT is trying to help the community "pick itself up" p. 75, even if how they do it seems contradictory. I'm sure that there are many politicians today who make deals with others to help their campaign or other odd reasons. We just don't know about them because they keep it hidden so well.
I agree with Arturo. Everyone is guilty of trying to make connections so they can move up in the world.
I think the relationship is exactly alike. Gang members and politians both are dirty and they are only in it for the money so i do agree with what they stated. Yses i do believe it still exists today. I wouldn't say all ,but most are very vicious and really aren't in it to help the people. Just like the way he beat up that man for working on that car while he was playing basketball is the same way politians do the people they supose to be working for.
I think that the relationship between gangs and politics is a two way story.Like Kiersten said, the politicians are there to keep the community safe. At the same time it mentions on numerous occasions in the book that the gangs are there to keep the community safe. So to me it's like the politicians ARE doing what they are supposed to be doing but in a different way.In my opinion it's not like the politicians are making rules that they can't promise, but they're doing it in a way that's illegal. Is this wrong? Yes, but I also think that this way of compromise is not unusual. "Well,see, an alderman can take the heat off us,...the alderman makes sure the cops don't come"(pg 74). Even thought I think that the politicians are there to end the violence, i think that in a way they are doing so.It's too many "security" forces for the community. You have the police, (whose supposed to protect the community),the alderman(job is to upgrade and protect the community), and the gangs(duty is to secure the community). With all these different forms of higher power there's going to be some sort of undercover activites going on. This type of agreements do still exist today but more in police life than politicians. For example, when somebody goes to jail they might serve a lesser time if they "talk" or bring in "weapons". Although this is not right, it's they way of life. There's gonna always be people "working together for the community"(pg 82). In these instances yea, dirt gets done but everyone gets a deal in the end. It's more of a every man win situation.
"But he also admitted that the 'legit' image was vital to the gang's underlying commercial mission: if law-abiding citizens viewed the gangs as a politically productive enterprise, they might be less likely to complain about its drug sales."(83)
This relationship between the gang and politics is very unusual because I never expected for them to communicate like that. As it says in the book, the gangs rely on the citizens and community to not call the police on them if they help out with the votes and political work. In today’s time, I believe that gangs and politics don’t exist. I think that gangs are too caught up in the drugs and streets to actually give back to the community and help influence votes. Gangs today are only worried about themselves and how they are going to kill other members. Like “Miley” said, gangs are more vicious then they were back then. In the book they cared more then they do now.
"Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us. An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents don't get too pissed off at us. Let's say we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come. And the only thing they want from us is a donation-ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year. Like I keep telling you, our organization is about our community, so we're trying to get involved in what's happening."(pg. 74).
I think the relationship between gangs and politicians is interesting. The gangs would bribe the politicians to keep the police from stopping their drug trades. That's the gangs way of getting money. Some people think of them as entrepreneurs. And, although, they are doing illegal trade, they still need to live and need money to buy whatever they need. The gangs arent physically hurting the community or anybody in it so I don't see anything wrong with their situation. I believe it does happen today, but there is more violence then their used to be.
I think that the relationship between gangs and politics is only weird to us because we are not directly part of it. When we think of politicians we see them as part of the government trying to help out the people,trying to make the streets safer for the people etc. Its somewhat hard to imagine them as being double faced.(Making pacts with the gangs,and trying to act as heroes in the community.) In the book, they seem to have a great relationship, working together to get what they want (the gangs wanting no government interference, and the politicians wanting money). "Well, see, an alderman can take heat off us," J.T said with a smile." An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents don't get pissed off at us. Let's say we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come. And the only thing they want from us is a donation-ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year." (74)
I do think that this still exists today but its more on the download, because its not very convenient for them to have the people know. I say its still goin on because times have not really changed. I agree wit count olaf when he said that all they want is power and money, and if helping a gang is the way to go, they'll do it.Politicians want power and money, and this is often times apparents in the laws etc. The majority of them are just after ways of taking money away from people and gettin more money for themselves. Also, lately we have seen many chicagoan politicians get sent to jail for some type of corruption (like former governor Blagoveich, etc).Gangs are still out there, increasing, doing worse things, so as time passes, they need more help (more connections with politians) to make sure no one gets in their way.
In the words of J.T. “An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents don't get too pissed off at us. Let's say we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come” (74). Considering the conditions were facing today no i do not believe that this conclusion/opinion stills exsits due to the increse crime rate and jail time to gangs. Also considering the fact that there is an increasing rate of gang members in jail, the view of connecting gangs with politics is eliminated.
"Even the gangs need friends with connections." Pg. 73
This seems to be a topic that is very hard to debate over. One thing to look at is that the gangs who are there to proteect their community, in a way are serving the same purpose that the politicians from those areas are doing. They do the same thing but in a legal and illegal way. To see a politician consult with gang leader, and vice-versa, it would seem that the subbordinates would think wrong of them.
On to what Kiersten said, I feel as though both parties need to work together to solve the problems that their communitites face on a day to day basis.
This relationship seems odd at first, but it is to be expected. I remember in class Mr. Pond was telling us how a man was running for president of a company, and won because of the people he knew, not because he was qualified. Vankentesh states,” I’d been reading about the history of Chicago political machine, whose leaders-white and black alike-were famous for practicing the dark arts of ballot stuffing, bribery, and yes, redelivered voting blocs." This shows how politicians actually move up the ladder not only based on what they have to offer, but on who they know and what status that they are. I wasn't surprised when I read that the gangs were involved in politics, and that it kept the police from watching them, because in my opinion a lot of politics are based on bribes. I also noticed how Lance was telling the young gang member who to vote for, instead of giving them the right to vote for who they wanted to based on what they were qualified to do. I also thing it is some what of a good thing that young gang members some type of enlightenment and education
I do believe that the relationship between drug dealers and politicians still exist today. With so much corruption in politics, especially in Illinois, it is not hard to believe that drug dealers bribe politicians to make campaign promises such as "denying building permits to political enemies, for instance, or protecting a gang's gambling racket... "(page 74). The fact that an alderman would make a promise like this one shows that they really don't care about what will help their communities, they are only concerned with the "donations" they recieve from the gangs and instead of using those donations to help the community they use the money for personal gain.
When i began to read chapter 3 I didn't think that gang and politics mixed together for any type of reason. But, as reading this chapter i encountered that there's a person that always wants best for the gang and wants them to have good people to represent them. For example, when Lenny wanted to make sure that everyone from the Taylor homes voted. But, I wouldn't know why they would do that if they didn't tell them everything about the voting and when Sudhir told them, when voting actually started they were clueless. Also, another way they talked about politics was when J.T. and Sudhir were talking about money about how and Alderman can help money wise but you have to pay them a specific amount of money to keep them around for a year. But, with politics money is involved to have that protection within the community
"Even the gangs need friends with connections." Pg. 73
Gangs and politics go hand-in-hand b/c both can be corrupt and need money n got illegal ways of getting it. If the gangs don't have connections, they wont be able to get away with anything they do or make money from it either. Both need connections to do what they want and have their own personal gain to reach. Especially today b/c politicians have more to get their hands on and gang members try to get as much money as possible and vice versa. I believe that we look at both of these parties right in the wrong way b/c they can do good, but not for long until the power gets to them. So understanding that both of these are the same AND depends on each other is very crucial in understanding urban life.
"Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us...An Alderman can keep the police away. he can make sure the residents don't get too pissed off at us... And the only thing they want from us is a donation--ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year..." -J.T. (page 74)
I for one truly believe that the connection between gang members and politicians is still prevalent today, especially with the conviction of former alderman Arenda Troutman (for bribery and dealings with a ex-boyfriend drug dealer.) it really makes me wonder who you can trust in the world today. Politicians are always campaigning for the people to give them a vote putting, forth words of encouragement that they'll do the best for the people if they win; but when the politicians actually make it to office, either don't keep their promises or they are put under suspicion due to unlawful affiliation and other sorts of corrupt acts. Gang members were once friends of yours who turned to gang life for failed attempts in higher education, or for fast money. Since people such as drug/gang members and politicians usually want power and money, it's no wonder they seize the opportunity to work together in their efforts to become well known or become better in their field of trade because of the advantage that they have over their opponents because of their close dealings with people (drug addicts and concerned citizens.) in a very corrupt world there is actually little room for those who truly wish to do what is right for the community, those who want to lower tax rates or see the children become responsible adults. This is because politicians that deal with gang members have the ability to control the people because they in bulk are doing the most for the people, and the people do not wish to come in between the forces that in some odd way keep them afloat. In essence, the gang/politician connection are in an evolutionary way trying to be just as they were in the old days: two different sources of power trying to raise the voice of the minority- majority,in order to get them noticed by the majority- minority. (Do you get it Mr. Pond? No joke intended.) Sorry it's LATE. ;(
I agree with what Leslie says about politicians looking out for their own personal gain. They are in it for the money and do not want to put "too much" money in low income areas.
I believe that corruption in politics is still common today and I'm not surprised it was around then. With recent evidence such as Rod Blagoivich, it is hard to be a Chicagoan and not suspect dishonesty in politicians.
"An the only thing they want from us is a donation - ten thousand dollars gets you an alderman for a year" (p 74). This relationship is sad (but not unexpected). I think it's something that could only make sense to someone benefitting from an alderman's corruption. JT and his gang firmly believes that they have a community with the people. "Like I keep telling you, our organization is about helping our community, so we're trying yo get involved in what's happening" (p 74).
"Well, see, an alderman can take the heat off of us...an alderman can keep the police away." p. 74
The relation that politicians and gangs share is very bizarre and insane. The fact that politicians will allow gang activity to happen in exchange for votes/money is crazy. Politicians have a different side while they are in office and while they are on a campaign, this is awkward because people vote for someone that they think they know. Corruption is a huge part of politics and it is very important for politicians to take these bribes. J.T. says that the money was exchanged for protection from police. This is crazy because the politicians know that some sort of gang activity is happening but they will allow this to continue for money. Politicians are elected for the good that they say will happen if they are elected, yet they are igniting the flame of gang activity. Politics should be based in the good and needs of constituents. The idea that a small amount of money can change this is crazy.
I still think that this exists today. The relationship between politicians and other gang members has probably worsened over the years. In our society politicians will help people do things that put people’s life in danger in exchange for money and sometimes even votes to remain in office. Money plays a huge role and it is obvious if politicians of all people are accepting bribes for a little lenience from police and other authority.
Yes I still do believe that there is that relationship between gangs and politics. Politicians just like any other person would do anything for money even if it means taking the easy way out. Like they say money talks in this case if it means aldermen have to stick up for gangs and keep the police from interrupting the gang's daily activities I feel like they will do it. Venkatesh states, "Although I'd heard about corrupt aldermen in the old days- denying building permits to political enemies, for instance, or protecting a gang's gambling racket-I had a hard time believing that J.T. could buy off a politician as easily as he described."p. 75 It does surprise me as well that it is that easy to buy off a politician but in reality that's the way things work.
Yes I do believe that the relationship between gangs and politics still exists today. On page 71 Venkatesh states that "It was 1990, which was roughly the peak of the crack epidemic in Chicago and other big U.S. Cities." Venkatesh's introduction to the relationship between gangs and politics seemed to happen in the 1990s which isn't a long time ago. I believe that if anything the relationship between gangs and politics has became even stronger and is more often to hear about. This is because drugs are consumed more every day.
I agree with Jamillah. I do believe that Alderman have a relationship with different scandals dealing with money. Now a days things aren't kept such a secret any more. People tend to be open about it and its not long before someone catches politicians having to have some sort of connection with drugs.
i believe that the relationship that gamgs and politicians have are rediculous because politicians wil go that far as to using criminal orginizations to win an election. If your going to win an election you should do it the correct way. I also believe that this still goes on today. I believe that many politicians are doing illegal things to get into office and its jus completely wrong.
"The alderman makes sure that the cops don't come. And the only thing that they want from us is a donation," (Page 74). The gangs wish to be protected, and the alderman wants money. In a way it seems like a give-and-take bribe. Personally i don't agree with this at all!! The alderman is suppose to be someone that a community can trust to protect them. However, this type of alderman is giving the protection of the people he "so-called" represents for money. Money is a powerful thing in this world, but it is not worth children, mothers, fathers, brothers, or a sister's safety or protection from negative influences.
A relationship between gang members and politicians i do agree still exist. However, i feel that it is not right, and very cunning. However, if this is true it wouldn't surprise me. Like Kiersten said, "Money plays a huge factor in this issue and when money is brought to the picture people generally don't care who they are affecting." This is true, people, politicians especially will do what it takes to get ahead or benefit themselves in any way. It is very selfish!!
I think this relationship is wrong. I feel that politians are silly because how could they sponsor something poisons our neighborhoods and communities. I could understand how J.T and his gang benefits from the realtionship, since it would mean less police interference, and politicians are in it for the money.p.76 "We all need to see where the power is!" It is very releading and dishonsent on all parties behalf because they promise to do one thing and do the exact opposite.
I believe it does exsist today but not as often. Politics is still corrupt and now people will go beyond the expected just to get ahead. Money is everything!
I believe that the fascinating and bizarre relationships between gangs and politics are so not cool; when I think about the two it seems that they are so different. It’s like a corrupt government. I do believe it still exists today because when you look at the political figures now/and government it seem like they were founded on lies. “An alderman can keep the police away. He can make sure residents don't get too pissed off at us. Let's say we need to meet in the park. The alderman makes sure the cops don't come” (74). This quote is so like wrong, and these are the people of represent us as a whole. From my understanding alderman are to a community safe and a wonderful environment for all and if the alderman is not doing its job why are they there. I totally agree with green this relationship between the gangs and alderman is very disturbing.
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